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StretchNM

Please Help Me w/ An All-Grain Batch

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A while back I brewed a little 1-gallon all-grain Kit. It was weak and impotent (which really taxed my ego). It consisted of 1-1/2 lb of 2-row and 1/2 ounce of Kent Goldings hops. The finished product tasted just fine, but it was weaker than near beer. Even though I had some help from some long-gone brewing program, I think I messed up with the amount of water ( I didn;t follow the directions exactly).

 

So now I want to improve on it, and I would like someone to run my numbers through one of those brewing programs to see bitterness, ABV, color, amount of strike water, sparge water, hops boil time, etc. If someone is willing, here are the particulars:

 

- 2 pounds of 2 Row

- 3 oz of Crystal 40

- 1/2 oz (?) Kent Goldings Hops (I have a full ounce, if needed)

- Safale US04

 

Thank you

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@StretchNM

Using beersmith stove top mini biab, batch size changed to 1 gallon, mash profile of biab medium body (obviously no sparge)

 

OG: 1.057

FG: 1.014

ABV: 5.7%

SRM: 7

IBU: 40

 

mash water: 1.76

Volume needed: 1.94

preboil: 1.6

post boil: 1.3

into fermenter: 1.3

bottling / trub loss: 0.3

bottling volume: 1

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20 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

@StretchNM

Using beersmith stove top mini biab, batch size changed to 1 gallon, mash profile of biab medium body (obviously no sparge)

............

 

mash water: 1.76

Volume needed: 1.94

preboil: 1.6

post boil: 1.3

into fermenter: 1.3

bottling / trub loss: 0.3

bottling volume: 1

 

Thank you @Creeps McLane. As you might have guessed I have some questions. I want to understand: Do I start with 1.94 gallons, then after steeping the grains (1 hour?) I'll have 1.6 gallons? Then after I boil the hops (how long?) I'll have 1.3 gallons? It seems like I will lose more than .3 gallons boiling for one hour.

 

The last time I made the (original recipe) Kit, it called for total 1/2 oz hops, 3/4 boiled for 60 minutes and remaining 1/4 at flameout. Should I do the same thing again? Also, it looks like the mash going into fermenter is 1.3 gallon, so it seems I can't use the 1-gallon jug, but I need to use my LBK so I have enough room(?).

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1 minute ago, StretchNM said:

 

Thank you @Creeps McLane. As you might have guessed I have some questions. I want to understand: Do I start with 1.94 gallons, then after steeping the grains (1 hour?) I'll have 1.6 gallons? Then after I boil the hops (how long?) I'll have 1.3 gallons? It seems like I will lose more than .3 gallons boiling for one hour.

 

The last time I made the (original recipe) Kit, it called for total 1/2 oz hops, 3/4 boiled for 60 minutes and remaining 1/4 at flameout. Should I do the same thing again? Also, it looks like the mash going into fermenter is 1.3 gallon, so it seems I can't use the 1-gallon jug, but I need to use my LBK so I have enough room(?).

Mash water + displacement of grains lets you know your volume which would let you know how full your kettle is gonna be. Youll lose water absorbing into the grains so you should be left with 1.6 when you lift out your bag and give it a slight squeeze. 

 

If you want to have 1 gallon at bottling then you’ll need the lbk. Assuming a slight loss to trub in the glass carboy youll end up with maybe 0.8ish gallons at bottling.  

 

Beersmith assumes a boil off rate. Thats dependant on your kettle and vigor of boil. I triple the assumed loss with my set up which includes loss in the lines and pump. 

 

I put the hops for your recipe at 60 minutes just because you really didnt say what you intended to do for a hopping schedule. 

 

Stupid question but your grains are milled right?

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I find this easy to use - http://www.biabcalculator.com/

 

I found my rates different. Instead of 1.25 gallons per hour boiloff, I get 0.7, probably due to my stove not being as hot as a big propane flame.  I also find my grain absorption to be different, instead of .045 gallons per pound, I use .075 gallons per pound.


Of course, without exact measurements one doesn't know whether it's boil off, or absorption, but I seem to now routinely get 3.45 gallons pre-boil and around 2.6 - 2.75 gallons post boil, with 2.5 gallons going into the LBK.  I found I needed to double crush my grains, and change QBrew's efficiency from 75% to 65%.  I don't sparge at all, but I do squeeze.

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It's not a stupid question, @Creeps McLane. I knew about needing the grains milled, but when I bought the grains I was just ready to pay and leave. Luckily, the guy said "Want me to mill these for you?". "But... of course!" :D (A save, but not a "veteran" save")

 

I will steep the grains for 1 hour, then expect to have about 1.6 gals after removing them. Boil hops for 1 hour and I will have about 1.3 gallons for fermenting. Use the LBK so there's enough room for wort and fermentation. Then, I can just leave it in the LBK until bottling time(?)

 

Thank you again. Does that program you use cost or is it free?

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15 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

I find this easy to use - http://www.biabcalculator.com/

 

I found my rates different. Instead of 1.25 gallons per hour boiloff, I get 0.7, probably due to my stove not being as hot as a big propane flame.  I also find my grain absorption to be different, instead of .045 gallons per pound, I use .075 gallons per pound.


Of course, without exact measurements one doesn't know whether it's boil off, or absorption, but I seem to now routinely get 3.45 gallons pre-boil and around 2.6 - 2.75 gallons post boil, with 2.5 gallons going into the LBK.  I found I needed to double crush my grains, and change QBrew's efficiency from 75% to 65%.  I don't sparge at all, but I do squeeze.

 

Thanks @RickBeer. I think you pointed me to that program during my first all-grain brew. I used it and then couldn't remember what it was to use on this batch. I'll try it now to see how it compares to Creeps' results.

 

ON EDIT: Ok I'm in the program. I have to go boil 2 gallons and see what my boil-off rate is. I did that before and now don't remember. I'm a piss-poor student

 

 

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Write down everything.

Write down everything.

Write down everything.

 

😀

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54 minutes ago, StretchNM said:

It's not a stupid question, @Creeps McLane. I knew about needing the grains milled, but when I bought the grains I was just ready to pay and leave. Luckily, the guy said "Want me to mill these for you?". "But... of course!" :D (A save, but not a "veteran" save")

 

I will steep the grains for 1 hour, then expect to have about 1.6 gals after removing them. Boil hops for 1 hour and I will have about 1.3 gallons for fermenting. Use the LBK so there's enough room for wort and fermentation. Then, I can just leave it in the LBK until bottling time(?)

 

Thank you again. Does that program you use cost or is it free?

Beersmith costs money. Its super nice if you plan on brewing AG. After a few batches you input your systems figures and then you never have to woory about it again. I dont measure anything anymore, the program does is all for me

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1 hour ago, RickBeer said:

Write down everything.

Write down everything.

Write down everything.

 

😀

#THIS!

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38 minutes ago, kedogn said:

#THIS!

@StretchNM buy 1 year of beersmith. you'll be hooked! write everything down in the notes tab on BS. 

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Thanks, Jdub. I will check into this beersmith and compare the schekel cost against value.

 

Moments ago, I measured my boil-off rate = .6 gal per hour. Does that sound right?

So, according to BIAB Calculator, for my 1-gallon batch I will need 1.95 gallons to start and will have 1.25 gallons for the fermenter. This is essentially the same as what @Creeps McLane provided (except that this program says I need a little more water to start).

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2 minutes ago, StretchNM said:

Thanks, Jdub. I will check into this beersmith and compare the schekel cost against value.

 

Moments ago, I measured my boil-off rate = .6 gal per hour. Does that sound right?

So, according to BIAB Calculator, for my 1-gallon batch I will need 1.95 gallons to start and will have 1.25 gallons for the fermenter. This is essentially the same as what @Creeps McLane provided (except that this program says I need a little more water to start).

1st of all, if @Creeps McLane told you something, you can take that to the bank! LOL. I believe that the default in BS is .5 gallons per hour for the boil off rate. I would argue that mine is higher, so I agree with you. sounds right. I usually start off with almost 5 gallons (4.7) and struggle to get 4 gallons into my fermenter....trying to leave some of the hop sludge behind.

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CORRECTION! : I started with 32 cups (2 gallons). After the boil I was left with 18 cups, for a loss of 14 cups. So for 1 gallon I will lose 7 cups, or about .4 of a gallon per hour. Now the figures in BIAB Calculator are almost exactly what @Creeps McLane provided. Almost to the very numbers.

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9 minutes ago, StretchNM said:

CORRECTION! : I started with 32 cups (2 gallons). After the boil I was left with 18 cups, for a loss of 14 cups. So for 1 gallon I will lose 7 cups, or about .4 of a gallon per hour. Now the figures in BIAB Calculator are almost exactly what @Creeps McLane provided. Almost to the very numbers.

it can also depend on how strong your boil is. my kitchen stove vs. my turkey fryer burner are 2 different outcomes potentially. 

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3 hours ago, StretchNM said:

 

Thanks @RickBeer. I think you pointed me to that program during my first all-grain brew. I used it and then couldn't remember what it was to use on this batch. I'll try it now to see how it compares to Creeps' results.

 

ON EDIT: Ok I'm in the program. I have to go boil 2 gallons and see what my boil-off rate is. I did that before and now don't remember. I'm a piss-poor student

 

 

Yeah, I'm all in as well on Beersmith. I have two different equipment profiles for two different sized kettles and fermenters. It's taken some tweaking to fine tune my boil rate on my induction burner, kettle loss, and trub loss in the fermenter but I'm real close these days to matching my numbers in BS. 

 

One of my favs is adjusting my water chemistry to match the type of brew and i always use the same Deer Park spring water as I have its profile and ph stored in BS. 

 

I think it's a great program and the scaling feature makes it easy to adjust batch sizes between my kettles and fermenters.

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18 hours ago, RickBeer said:

Write down everything.

Write down everything.

Write down everything.

 

😀

 

So here's a reinforcement of this principle.  Last week I tested my Apricot Wheat FG, a week after adding the 2nd can of apricots.  It was right on.  So I cold crashed it.  And, apparently forgot to write down the reading, or the temperature.  Not a big deal, I know it was in the 1.012 - 1.014 range, and would have been 64 degrees.  But, this reinforces WRITING EVERYTHING DOWN.

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To better understand "boil-off rate", please tell me if I have this right:

- Boil 2 gallons for one hour

- Let cool and measure remainder

- Subtract remainder from 2 (gallons) (to get the loss)

- Divide the loss by 2 (to bring  a 2-gal measurement to 1-gal)

- That is the boil-off rate

 

Correct?

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"A while back I brewed a little 1-gallon all-grain Kit. It was weak and impotent (which really taxed my ego). It consisted of 1-1/2 lb of 2-row and 1/2 ounce of Kent Goldings hops."

Don't feel bad, this was a pretty light brew anyway. a quick scan on recipe builder puts it a little over 4% ABV even with the right amount of water.

So it will taste pretty thin.

 

Your new amounts look like just under 6% so a big difference. 

 

Do you remember what ABV did the kit claim?

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On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 10:29 AM, RickBeer said:

 

So here's a reinforcement of this principle.  Last week I tested my Apricot Wheat FG, a week after adding the 2nd can of apricots.  It was right on.  So I cold crashed it.  And, apparently forgot to write down the reading, or the temperature.  Not a big deal, I know it was in the 1.012 - 1.014 range, and would have been 64 degrees.  But, this reinforces WRITING EVERYTHING DOWN.

I guess everyone has a different method to do it. Mine is I do a print out of my recipe from Beersmith and I write my notes on the paper print out like OG and FG and any amounts that I might have changed, LOL, like when I meant to add 8oz of LME and it came out too fast so 1lb. went in.

 

Then I transfer those into my spreadsheet that I keep on the computer and in Google Drive.

 

I like having that hard copy print out and keep 3 hard copy folders, one with current brews, one with recipes that I might want to tackle, and the third is informational and technical stuff that I run across and print out but seldom delve into.

 

That being said I still chuckle when I clean out the old mail stuff from the counter in the kitchen and find stuff scribbled on a junk mail envelope like FG 1.012.

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1 hour ago, Nickfixit said:
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....................................

 

Your new amounts look like just under 6% so a big difference. 

 

Do you remember what ABV did the kit claim?

 

No Nick, the Kit didn't give any data. And.... My OG reading was 022 and I forgot to take FG reading before pitching my yeast. Even without the FG, I knew it would be low ABV% because of the initial reading. Yes "thin" is a very good descriptor.

 

 

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1 hour ago, StretchNM said:

To better understand "boil-off rate", please tell me if I have this right:

- Boil 2 gallons for one hour

- Let cool and measure remainder

- Subtract remainder from 2 (gallons) (to get the loss)

- Divide the loss by 2 (to bring  a 2-gal measurement to 1-gal)

- That is the boil-off rate

 

Correct?

Don't overthink it @StretchNM! You boil your 2 gallons for an hour and it cools and you have 1.5 gal left then your boil off rate is .5 gal per hour. Now that you have that approx. rate per hour then next time you want to make a recipe that requires an hour boiling grains, LME, whatever then you know that you need to add an extra .5 gal to your kettle to compensate the loss.

 

You can always boil longer if you over compensated, or if you find that you boiled off too much you can add some water back.

 

I find it handy in Beersmith to check my gravity post boil before I pump into the fermenter. Beersmith will usually say something like my post boil should be 1.046 and so if I find that I'm at 1.033 I might dissolve a .5-.75 lb of LME  into the kettle and take another read before pumping into the fermenter. Of course if I'm on the money with BS or slightly above the post boil gravity I have no worry and proceed to pumping into the fermenter.

 

At least use Qbrew to fill in those blanks if you're not using BS yet. Qbrew will be pretty close with you losses to boil off , hop additions, and trub loss.

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 @StretchNM if you don't mind me asking, why do you want to brew 1 gallon batches? to each his own, but it's no more effort to fill up your LBK (2 gallons) and have more beer.to drink. especially if you really like it....know what i mean? i used to think that the LBK was way too much beer, and now I'm questioning the concept of 4 gallons. go figure.

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11 minutes ago, Jdub said:

 @StretchNM if you don't mind me asking, why do you want to brew 1 gallon batches? to each his own, but it's no more effort to fill up your LBK (2 gallons) and have more beer.to drink. especially if you really like it....know what i mean? i used to think that the LBK was way too much beer, and now I'm questioning the concept of 4 gallons. go figure.

I agree. I brewed 10 gallons this weekend, 5 gallons AG wouldve taken just as much time, 2 gallons wouldve taken just as much time. Brew more now so you dont have to brew later. Split yeasts, add fruit, experiment and youll learn twice as fast

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I agree with you both, @Jdub and @Creeps McLane. Sometimes I don't think straight, so when I bought the grain at the supply store, well, that was one of those times. I was just browsing and marveling and slobbering around at that place that it was a spur of the moment idea. I was thinking that first 1-gallon batch tasted so good ("thin" though it was) 'what if I duplicated it but added this much grain and that much of that'. I should have got maybe 4 pounds of 2-Row with 6oz of Crystal 40 or something, and just tried that for 2 full gallons.

 

I really want to get a 7 gallon bucket at ritebrew and brew some larger batches, I just haven't pulled the trigger yet. (Oh but I did order and receive a new LBK a while back, so now I could do 4 gallons. It's standing by like a good soldier, all shined up and ready when I want it)

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I'd suggest that in the future you sit down and plan what you want to do.  For example, brew a 2.5 gallon batch in an LBK (which will hold 2.5 gallons just fine).  Or a 2 gallon batch.  Then find a recipe that you like online (there are thousands of extract recipes), convert it to the size you're going to brew, come up with a list of ingredients, and then go buy the ingredients (or order online).

 

I come up with my recipes and the list of ingredients, and because my store is online also I cost them out.  I then go and pull my grains for recipe #1, crush them, and seal the bag, labeling it.  Then I go do #2.  And so on.

 

When I check out, if the bill is different I have them review what they entered wrong...  

 

Just buying stuff while at a store is backwards.

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I hear you @RickBeer, but is 2 pounds of 2-row and 3 oz of Crystal 40 not about right for a 1-gallon batch, and especially if I've had it in mind to re-try a similar but weaker recipe for some time? I mean for a stumbling around, slobbering, on-the-spot  decision, it's probably a pretty good 1-gal recipe. Right?

 

I sometimes will write or speak in a somewhat self-deprecating manner 50% because it's sort of true, 50% because it's kind of fun, and the remaining 50% because it can be humorous. And throw in the last 23% to masochism.

 

Awhile back I already had plans to, at some point in the future, recreate my only all-grain batch, and I knew I wanted to increase the amount of grain. But I procrastinated ordering it or buying it until one day in a shop, where I tripped and fell over a salesperson (I should've tied my shoes before I went in). Anyway, I began telling him of this lofty dream of recreating a recipe when he tells me my 2 pounds of 2-row (as opposed to the original 1.5 pounds) is actually a relatively common, basic recipe for pale ale. I wanted it darker, so he suggested adding 4 ounces of Crystal 30, which they were out of, so we substituted 3 oz of Crystal 40. And just like that, I realized my life-long dream of re-creating an original recipe yet, creating one at the same time! A Master Brewer I became, at that very moment.

 

Still though, as you infer, I must learn to sit down, think more, become more studious, plan my actions, and then take action on my plans.

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i think the advice is sound. identify your target before you shoot. decide what you want to brew, find a recipe for it online or other, scale it to your batch size with brewing software or do some math. then go get your ingredients and brew it up. many here have brewed with random ingredients before, but that is probably after brewing many batches and kind of know what to expect. you'll probably make better beer. just my free advice.

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