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TallCool1

2/2/2 Rule - forget it

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I'm several batches in and haven't been real impressed. I've had the cider yeast taste that every one talks about combined with inpatience I have to admit. I read a thread where Yankee Dag mentioned letting the beer carb longer. Ive done a few batches this way and can't beleive the differance.
New rule - 2/4/chill/drink great beer.

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But isn't that really pretty much the same as 2/2/2? Six weeks is six weeks...

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If I interpreted it right, I think he did the last two in the fridge. Maybe didn't give it enough time after carbing for the yeast to clean things up. Going 2-4-fridge, I think he's doing the same thing we do.

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I keep mine out of the fridge for at least 6 weeks on the bottle then put them in for a week before drinking.

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I do a 3-3 ??? I just let is sit in the fermenter 3 weeks ,bottle and let carb for 3 weeks and then who knows but usually its anywhere from a day to a month in the fridge and then enjoy but again that is just what I do.Your results may vary.

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Hmmmmm...

The 2/2/2 rule or the 2/4 or the 3/3.

There seems to be a pattern emerginging, but it eludes me.

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The cidery taste is probably a result from booster or added sugar. At any rate, my best results are letting the bottles sit for 4-8 weeks at room temp. That usually works great. Then pop them in the frdge for a few days or a month to get all the yeast to fall and stay at the bottom of the bottles.

I've had great results. Fermentation times vary depending on the beer.

And if your unhappy with the cloudiness, let the beer sit for a little after you pour it out and the "chill haze" may go away a bit. Fact is, almost all homebrew is cloudy cuz it's all natural and not filtered. There are clarifiying agents and tricks like cold crashing that help clear it up pretty good but to get it crystal clear is kinda highly unlikely.

Taste, aroma, quality is my main concern though.

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Yeah the second 2 and the third 2 are basically the same thing. It's just 2 weeks of carbing, and 2 weeks not in the fridge conditioning. Or simplified yeah 4 weeks in the bottle before you chill them and then tear their heads off and drink their innards. That was in honor of dag.

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I am into my fourth batch and have been doing 2 weeks fermenting.....two weeks in dark closet then 2 weeks in fridge is this wrong?? I thought last 2 weeks were supposed to be in fridge??
My third batch was the mr beer maibock and is the best one so far i also added some superfine irish moss and it is completely amber no cloudiness....good taste........my first batch of canadian draft not so good....second batch witty monk too light in flavor.......hoptrus 2 still conditioning american devil IPA with amarillo/cenntennial for 15-30 mins and dry hop of cenntennial......how long should that one age out side of fridge?? help please...sorry to ramble.....

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At first i was confused about the 2/2/2 method, but now i understand the longer you condition the better the beer.

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That's just it you haven't been doing it wrong some people just say it doesn't really start to "condition" untill it is fully cabonated which can take two weeks. It will condition faster and better at room temp.

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I understand carbing and conditioning to be two different things because the former has yeast working (or at least working harder) and the latter doesn't (or not as much, anyway).

In other words, when a beer is put in the bottle and the seal is on, the yeast are converting the sugar, roughly the same process as in the fermenter. But the by-product (CO2) doesn't vent. It gets absorbed back into the solution, producing fizziness.

Once that process has stopped, the liquid isn't going to get any fizzier, and the yeast clean things up some, which is the conditioning process. A longer conditioning time allows the various taste elements blend and mature a little, same as they do in some savory dishes, like tomato sauce and barbecue sauce. It needs to mature a little before you get the best flavor.

In any case, the temperature for carbing and conditioning is important. Too warm and the yeast may die. Too cool and some yeast go to sleep or don't work as hard. Ale yeasts and lager yeasts work at different temperatures, so the type of beer or the individual conditions may influence what types of yeasts a brewer chooses. But as a rule of thumb, for our purposes, I believe temperatures in the mid-50s to high-60s are not extreme for carbing and conditioning.

The refrigeration helps clarity and settling of floating material, and makes the beer more refreshing to our palates.

Time, temperature, and darkness.

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We all agree 2-2-2 at the right temp - 2-4.

I can't add anything to this, but I enjoyed reading it; it confirmed what I was thinking ... not to sound like a broken record, but I've enjoyed this forum because you can learn in here at any level. People share, and I've never seen (yet) anyone get riduclued except in good nature. Good stuff. The reason I've gotten to feel comfortable in what I do is mostly because of the folks in here. More important, I just really like seeing other people fine tune what they're doing, I learn what I can, and ... it's just really nice seeing others enjoy this hobby.

But, I digress .. I've always done the 2-2-2 thing, but I'm only starting to go a bit longer than that now, as I'm getting a little inventory. However, when I batch is carbed, I always seem to take one or two, and chill them down, and put two in the "library" for way later.
That's 21-4=17 brews to condition. I find that the ones I drank without much conditioning that could have probably really benefited from conditioning were the stouts, but they were still great.

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TallCool1 wrote:

In a nut shell, don't be in such a hurry to get it in the fridge

That about says it. I learned this after my first batch of WCPA and even that tasted better after 2 weeks of conditioning (4 weeks in the bottle at room temp).

I have three batches that will be ready within 5 days of each other now (some suggested conditioning 4 weeks instead of 2) so I'm going to have almost 3 cases ready at once. Fortunately, I have thirsty friends and family.

The waiting is the hardest part. Especially when you tweak a recipe a bit, it's hard to wait 6 weeks to see how it came out.

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That's the importance of a full pipeline. It makes it much easier to let your brews condition longer.

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gophers6 wrote:

That's the importance of a full pipeline. It makes it much easier to let your brews condition longer.

+1 I agree about the pipeline, makes things so much easier. As I look into my beer closet I can see that I have now got the better part of 2 full batches that were bottled 1 1/2 months ago. 1 more batch that hits 1 month ago tomorrow and another that hits 1 month ago on Tuesday... with 3 more batches that I just bottled last weekend and more on the way. Once you get past that "OMG I AM MAKING BEER, I HAVE TO DRINK IT NOW" phase.... the pipeline starts to grow!

On a slightly different note, it happened to me last night. You know, that moment when you go into your favorite watering hole, order up your favorite beer on tap and as you take a drink you realize, "WTF?!?" Yeah, last night Mirror Pond started tasting like crap to me because I am so used to my own beer. I'm talking to the point where I asked them to make sure they poured me a Mirror Pond, cause, um, NO! Not sure if that is a good thing or not, but it made me laugh :)

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I personally agree that a pipeline is critical. I brew mostly lagers with lager yeast so more beers need to condition at least 2 months and more are best after four months. I try to keep 10 beers in the pipeline at various stages of drinking, conditioning, carbonation, and fermenting. My typical time is 2-3 weeks fermenting depending on the yeast and the beer. 2 weeks carbonating and the four months conditioning.

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kedogn wrote:

gophers6 wrote:

That's the importance of a full pipeline. It makes it much easier to let your brews condition longer.


Agreed, that's where I'm hoping to get soon.
Mirror Pond - you in Oregon?

harlick187 - love the avatar. Snoochie booches!

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You need to be careful going any longer than 2-weeks in the keg. Once the sugar gets all eaten up by the yeast it will start to cannibalize itself, giving off some less then desirable flavors. It's best to rack the beer to another secondary keg and leave the old yeast behind. Then you can let it sit for another few weeks before bottling. Although I've never had problems using the Mr. Beer instructions, I would recommend a warm condition after bottling for at least 3 weeks.

For more information you can check out "How-To-Brew" by Palmer

http://www.amazon.com/How-Brew-Everything-Right-First/dp/0937381888/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1270228420&sr=8-1

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Hmmm. I've always gone 17-20 days in the fermenter. No complaints yet.

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After bottling my biggest and best beer to date after only 6 days in primary fermetation, I tend to only leave it in the fermenter for as long as it needs to be in there.

I haven't yet racked my beer into a secondary fermenter since I only do MB size batches, but I do late additions like dry hops or fruit after primary dies down (after 5-6 days) when krausen falls.

I've had awesome results. Less time in the fermenter means more time you can let them sit in bottles. Vice Versa if you leave it in the fermenter longer. You could probably get away with less conditioning in bottles if you leave it in the fermenter longer. I just don't like letting the beer sit on the yeast too long.

My last batch was in primary for 5 full days, then I dumped in my dry hops and fruit puree. Let it sit for a full week. Smelled and tasted amazing when I bottled.

In bottles for 5 days now and it's clearing up great!

Different stroke for different folks! I have yankeedag to thank for the advice on bottling when it reached FG and letting it sit longer in bottles to finish up.

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Since I switched to better yeast, 2 weeks in the keg for all batches. Always done sooner, but allows me to keep a brew/bottle schedule. Still working on the patience thing. :drinking:

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I did the 3-3-3 but I found it best to put in the fridge for more than 1 day. I noticed a difference between 8 hours and 3 days! I popped two beers in this morning at the last minute for tonight. Not as good as the ones last week or so where I waited 3 days in the fridge. I noticed some yeastiness in the brew despite careful pouring.

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Yeah even with careful pouring you can still get a lil yeast in there. Definately a big difference between 8 hours and a few days though.

I watch the beer as it comes out and when I see a slight little bit of trub mixing into the last bit I stop pouring. Usually only sacrifice a little bit (maybe half ounce). That last little bit of beer (muddy looking creamy trub beer) can stay put at the bottom till I rinse the bottle and store for another brew B)

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On conditioning: The beer we make is unfiltered, which means it has a living organism in it. The refridgerator puts the live yeasties to sleep.

Many styles of ale produce better flavor with cellar temps for conditioning.... even room temp conditioning is better than cold conditioning for a lot of styles/yeast types because the continued work of the yeast is an integral part of desired flavor of the finished product.

On the other hand, there are also some ale styles like Kolsch & Cream Ale that benefit from lagering (cold conditioning). And when trying to recreate a lager recipe, brewed as an ale, you have to use a tasteless yeast (like US-05) and cold condition to get the clean, crisp taste associated with lager beer.

I'll finish by saying this hobby is deep. Brewing beer is an artform, and that's one of the things that makes it so appealing to amazing people like us. B)

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Eddie wrote:

And when trying to recreate a lager recipe, brewed as an ale, you have to use a tasteless yeast (like US-05) and cold condition to get the clean, crisp taste associated with lager beer.

Wow, this is very useful. Thank you Eddie

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I myself have found that 2/2/4 seems to work best for me warm conditioning. If I plan on cold conditioning 2/3/5-6 seems to do it too.

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Trying to lock a specific time table in is defeating the point of home brewing. 2-2-2 is a starting point. A good hydrometer will aid determining the fermentation time(I have a keg that is in day 20 and the sg is still going down). Had 1 batch that hit estimated FG after 10 days. The carb time is pretty we set a 2 weeks assuming that the brew fully fermented. Conditioning can be as long a 6 months. Don't lock yourself into a set schedule. I bottle a few 8 oz each batch just to have some test bottles, pop 1 at 2 or 3 weeks of conditioning just to see how things are going if it is a new brew.

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cavalrymsh wrote:

Zobl wrote:

from_the_keg.jpg

Beer in as little as two weeks!


That's always the first batch!

...just after pitching the yeast...

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yankeedag wrote:

cavalrymsh wrote:

Zobl wrote:

from_the_keg.jpg

Beer in as little as two weeks!


That's always the first batch!

...just after pitching the yeast...

2/2/2
2 Hours of waiting for something to happen with the first batch.
2 Threads started - what's wrong with my fermentation?
2 Months later (wife) "Isnt it just cheaper to buy this crap?!"

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He He on the above posts. Since I've been on this forum I've been fermenting for 3 weeks = good, but maybe longer then sometimes needed, carbing 2 weeks = good, but seems like along time, conditioning 2 weeks = ok, but seems like forever. I don't think on my limited but ever expanding knowledge of brewing 2 weeks is enough time to condition, 4-6 is better & even more time is better yet. 24 hrs in the fridg. seems ok a couple days seems better, But sometimes 'ya have to drink one warm or throw a couple in the freezer for a few min. cause you can't wait.

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I write the bottling date on the label and don't touch them until at least four weeks from that date.

They're good after that four-week wait, but I've noticed that they're better if they've been sitting longer. Since I have four drinkable batches now, thanks to a full pipeline, I'm able to really appreciate the longer time before drinking, and some recipes really require more time than four weeks in the bottle.

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FedoraDave wrote:

I write the bottling date on the label and don't touch them until at least four weeks from that date.

They're good after that four-week wait, but I've noticed that they're better if they've been sitting longer. Since I have four drinkable batches now, thanks to a full pipeline, I'm able to really appreciate the longer time before drinking, and some recipes really require more time than four weeks in the bottle.

Me, too, on the min four weeks from bottling. After that, it's all fair game. Some of my heavier brews could have used more conditioning, like the seasonals, but after 2-2-2 if I want it I drink it.

I've never had a beer require more than about 14 days in the fermenter ... but then again, I've never made a novacaine or the like.

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DirkDiggler wrote:

Eddie wrote:

And when trying to recreate a lager recipe, brewed as an ale, you have to use a tasteless yeast (like US-05) and cold condition to get the clean, crisp taste associated with lager beer.

Wow, this is very useful. Thank you Eddie

Nottingham does a good job of this too if you ferment in the low 60s. It does tend to be pretty agressive at fermenting whatever it touches though, so you will need more malt vs. US-05 to achieve the same body.

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I ferment for 3 weeks, and then what FedoraDave said:


FedoraDave wrote:

I understand carbing and conditioning to be two different things because the former has yeast working (or at least working harder) and the latter doesn't (or not as much, anyway).

In other words, when a beer is put in the bottle and the seal is on, the yeast are converting the sugar, roughly the same process as in the fermenter. But the by-product (CO2) doesn't vent. It gets absorbed back into the solution, producing fizziness.

Once that process has stopped, the liquid isn't going to get any fizzier, and the yeast clean things up some, which is the conditioning process. A longer conditioning time allows the various taste elements blend and mature a little, same as they do in some savory dishes, like tomato sauce and barbecue sauce. It needs to mature a little before you get the best flavor.

In any case, the temperature for carbing and conditioning is important. Too warm and the yeast may die. Too cool and some yeast go to sleep or don't work as hard. Ale yeasts and lager yeasts work at different temperatures, so the type of beer or the individual conditions may influence what types of yeasts a brewer chooses. But as a rule of thumb, for our purposes, I believe temperatures in the mid-50s to high-60s are not extreme for carbing and conditioning.

The refrigeration helps clarity and settling of floating material, and makes the beer more refreshing to our palates.

Time, temperature, and darkness.

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Do some of you put all your beer in the fridge after conditioning?
I just put a couple in at a time allowing the others to continue there conditioning, plus there is limited space.
I don't think I am doing it 'wrong' or anything, I am just curious. I have noticed each bottle is a but better each time this way.

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I never really "store" beer in the fridge. I usually only put it in there to chill before drinking it. When I know I'll be having a few or entertaining and serving a few, I'll put them in the fridge a day or so ahead of time.

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I used to not keep my beer in bulk in the fridge until I read the latest BYO magazine. They have an article (not online) named "The Effects of Storage Conditions on Homebrew Quality." Essentially the recommendation was to cold store the homebrew after room temp conditioning is complete.

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swenocha wrote:

I used to not keep my beer in bulk in the fridge until I read the latest BYO magazine. They have an article (not online) named "The Effects of Storage Conditions on Homebrew Quality." Essentially the recommendation was to cold store the homebrew after room temp conditioning is complete.


I have always had a gut feeling about this being the best course to take.
I have also always had a gut feeling it would be nice to have beer last that long too. :P

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That does make sense since unfiltered, unpasterized beer is alive and would continue to change when stored under temps that yeast are active.

I still condition the warmer drinking beers like stout, bitter, & porter in the cellar. Beers I drink cold get lagered in fridge.

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more beer here wrote:

I do a 3-3 ??? I just let is sit in the fermenter 3 weeks ,bottle and let carb for 3 weeks and then who knows but usually its anywhere from a day to a month in the fridge and then enjoy but again that is just what I do."Your results may vary".

In local taste test, Haldol caused extensive thought patterns and dementia in test subjects in comparison to a placebo, "Results my vary" in monkeys, The deceased & Zombies, When taken with beer, Subjects experienced hallucinations, Dryness of mouth & Overall feelings of general dread, Consult a doctor if any of the following occur : Your legs feel numb, Your heart stops beating, Your wife leaves you, Or your dog pees on you. Beer has been prescribed for you because the side effects are less likely to harm you than pissing off an 8 foot giant. Again : "Results may vary" Da Da Da Da Da Da Da CaveMan ! :batman:

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In local taste test, Haldol caused extensive thought patterns and dementia in test subjects in comparison to a placebo, "Results my vary" in monkeys, The deceased & Zombies, When taken with beer, Subjects experienced hallucinations, Dryness of mouth & Overall feelings of general dread, Consult a doctor if any of the following occur : Your legs feel numb, Your heart stops beating, Your wife leaves you, Or your dog pees on you. Beer has been prescribed for you because the side effects are less likely to harm you than pissing off an 8 foot giant. Again : "Results may vary" Da Da Da Da Da Da Da CaveMan ! :batman:

Now that's funny ! ( but I think it should be in the joke section ) just saying....

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I'm just now drinking 2 brews I made about 4 weeks ago and I like how they taste already. As I remember them they both finished primary fermentation after about 10 days after that I warmed them up a few degrees before bottling 4 days later.

I did let them both naturally carbonate down in the basement for nearly 14 days before I had to try them out. The first beer was a Chocolate Barley Stout made from all grain and the second was a Wheat beer made with DME and steeping grains.

I love good beer and I love brewing.

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Chocolate Barley Stout ? Sounds interesting ! I don't see it listed as an option to purchase from Mr. beer ?

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Dos Equis wrote:

Chocolate Barley Stout ? Sounds interesting ! I don't see it listed as an option to purchase from Mr. beer ?

It's his own recipe...I can't find it atm on his site to link it for ya.

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jopa wrote:

I keep mine out of the fridge for at least 6 weeks on the bottle then put them in for a week before drinking.


I think this is the best way in general. Although 30 days is usually what I wait, unless I have lots of beer in rotation then it will
"warm condition" longer...


edit - for my pale ales, 3 week ferment, 4 week condition/carb, 1 week in the fridge (on max cold) minimum.

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d3EP wrote:

jopa wrote:

I keep mine out of the fridge for at least 6 weeks on the bottle then put them in for a week before drinking.


I think this is the best way in general. Although 30 days is usually what I wait, unless I have lots of beer in rotation then it will
"warm condition" longer...


edit - for my pale ales, 3 week ferment, 4 week condition/carb, 1 week in the fridge (on max cold) minimum.


3 weeks fermenting in LBK is coming up next Monday, 4 weeks cond. is gonna be for ever ! But good things come to those who wait ! One week in fridge is gonna seem like forever ! Stay thirsty my friends ! :gulp:

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yankeedag wrote:

use the time you are building your pipeline to harvest beer bottles.

Like picking up empty beer bottles on the side of the road ?

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Dos Equis wrote:

yankeedag wrote:

use the time you are building your pipeline to harvest beer bottles.

Like picking up empty beer bottles on the side of the road ?

That works, too, but with deposit laws, there aren't as many on the side of the road, so you may have more success buying bottled beer and verifying that the bottles are not screw-top bottles. Or, if you're in a state with deposit laws, go to a redemption center.

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